讨论:卡雷凡桥

吐麦拿的正名

条目内文：

吐麦拿单孔石桥，根据吉尼斯世界记录的记载，是世界上目前所知仍保存并在使用最古老桥梁，该桥位于今土耳其境内的伊士麦，横跨海尔斯河，约建于公元前850年，是一个拱桥及石桥。

我无法找到“吐麦拿单孔石桥”和“海尔斯河”的位置及英文名称，倒找到以下几项资料

8000 year- old İzmir, having a history dated back neolithic age, is one of the unique cities of the world with its historical treasures. The city acquired its old name from an Amazon Queen called "Smyrna. Izmir, which had been a host town to many civilizations during history; owns historical traces of great civilizations and one of the seven wonders of the world (Artemision-Ephesus), Agora from Roman times, and the known oldest bridge in the world which is registered in Guinness Records Book.

摘自：http://www.ege.edu.tr/en/detay.php?SayfaID=351&cat=details

"the known oldest bridge in the world which is registered in Guinness Records Book"看来的确是在伊士麦(İzmir)

- The Stone Bridge of Adana (Turkish: Task䲡r? which spans the Seyhan River. This bridge was originally built during the reign of the Roman Emperor Hadrian in the 2nd century AD, but has been damaged by earthquakes many times over the centuries, and repaired - including during the reign of the Byzantine Emperor Justinian I in the 6th century, the Umayyad caliph al-Walid II during the 7th century, and the caliph al-Mu'tasim during the 8th century. As a result, only 14 of the original 21 arches remain, but nevertheless, the bridge is the oldest bridge in the world which is still in use today.

按"the bridge is the oldest bridge in the world which is still in use today"这句看来，的确像是在谈条目里所提到的桥，但位置（İzmir→Adana）和建筑时期却不同？@_@

During the spring this park is an absolutely delightful place to take a picnic lunch and then enjoy a boat trip on the Sehan River. To the South is the Roman Bridge, the oldest bridge in the world in continuous usage. This region has been a crossroads for the silk trade for millenia. There are several castles all within a few hours of the city.

摘自：http://www.globosapiens.net/travel-information/Adana-1009.html

又是"the oldest bridge in the world in continuous usage"，河名叫"Sehan River"（疑是"Seyhan River"的字误），读音不像“海尔斯河”。桥名只简单称为"Roman Bridge"，看不出跟“吐麦拿”的关系。

我还找过"Taskopru bridge"，不过Taskopru跟İzmir位置不同。

会不会是条目内的资料混淆了些不同的资料在内？—Xtctjames (留言) 2008年1月16日 (三) 15:06 (UTC)

在[1]找到："The oldest surviving datable bridge in the world is a slab stone single-arch bridge over the River Meles in Izmir (formerly Smyrna) Turkey, which dates from c. 850 B.C."，不过桥名是否叫“吐麦拿”存疑。 --Mewaqua 2008年1月27日 (日) 17:36 (UTC)

吐麦拿应是“士麦拿”（Smyrna，位于今伊士麦的古城及古文明）之误，我先作了移动，但这是否是它的正式名称就不是很确定了。—ffaarr (talk) 2008年1月28日 (一) 01:57 (UTC)

两位的帮忙，让调查突破了瓶颈，感谢！^_^

又找到一些可能有用的资料，先裱起来

土耳其西部城市。全国第三大城市和最大港口之一。位于爱琴海犬牙交错的海岸边不受风雨袭击的伊士麦湾的顶端。今城有广阔林荫道和现代化楼房，始建于1924年。大部分在环海湾东端的克孜勒古卢河(Kizilcullu, 古称梅勒斯〔Meles〕)三角洲小平原以及其南面的高地和山脊上。横跨伊士麦湾的卡尔舍亚 ...

摘自：http://wordpedia.eb.com/tbol/article?i=037699&db=big5

Bridge Trivia Oldest Bridge in the world still in use. Dating back to 850 B.C., the slab stone single–arch bridge spans the River Meles in Izmir, Turkey.

摘自：http://www.clemson.edu/t3s/newsletters/pdffiles/Winter2003.pdf

Southeast of the Culture Park in Izmir to the east of Basmahane Station, the Kemer Bridge crosses the small River Melez (the ancient Meles), a modern structure on Greek and Roman foundations.

摘自：http://www.planetware.com/izmir/caravan-bridge-tr-iz-izcb.htm

这桥的英文名称可能叫Smyrna slab stone single-arch bridge或者Smyrna masonry arch bridge吧。—Xtctjames (留言) 2008年1月29日 (二) 14:41 (UTC)

应该是土麦拿单孔石桥，资料参考于河北人民出版社的《青年知识手册·世界之最》。“土”作“吐”是笔误，只是一直没有发现。在这里对我的失误表示深深的歉意。—彭鹏 (留言) 2008年1月29日 (二) 15:43 (UTC)

彭先生千万别太客气，小弟寻根究底只为追寻知识，绝对没有怪罪之心（小弟也经常有失误:P）。况且接下来，我们还有很多积极而有意义的考证工夫可以做，希望大家可以继续协助，共同努力^_^（详见下文↓）—Xtctjames (留言) 2008年1月30日 (三) 05:27 (UTC)

我看英文称呼是Caravan Bridge[2]，没有Smyrna slab stone single-arch bridge这种中文转翻英文的称呼，建议条目中文名也遵从英文改为卡雷凡桥。--Outlookxp（留言） 2013年6月24日 (一) 07:45 (UTC)

桥的座标、哪条比较老？

目前尚待解决的问题有……

1. 该桥的座标（我整天用Google Earth在土耳其上空飞来飞去:P）
2. 该桥跟Stone Bridge (Adana)比较，那么哪条才是“现在仍然使用中的位于土耳其的现存世上最古老的石桥”？

顺道裱起一些昨晚看到的资料：

850BC: First arched bridge built in Smyrna, Turkey.

摘自：http://www.seafriends.org.nz/books/mantime.htm

Information: Oldest preserved (?) arch bridge

Bridge: Meles Bridge

Type of bridge: Stone arch

Country: Turkey

Year of completion: app. 850 B.C

摘自：http://www.sbi.se/uploaded/dokument/files/Steel%20Bridges%20by%20SBI_ver3.03.pdf 的 P.2

The oldest surviving masonry arch bridge is at Smyrna, in Turkey. It was built around 900 BC.

摘自：http://bdml.stanford.edu/twiki/bin/view/Brunelleschi/ArchDomeConstruction

The oldest surviving datable bridge in the world is a slab stone single-arch bridge over the River Meles in Izmir (formerly Smyrna) Turkey, which dates from c. 850 B.C. [ref 4]

References 4. The Guiness Book of World Records, April 1994

摘自：http://www.tyeeconsulting.com/guidelines.html

这条桥具有这样的历史地位，它的图和座标却如此难找，颇匪夷所思

我昨晚开始试图从搜寻Smyrna或İzmir的地图入手，配合Google Earth互相参照去找，找了一整晚，但暂无所获（惨的是在互助客栈里求助时，还被没帮忙的人指我这是动口不动手、假腥做态、兴风作浪呢...-_-）。—Xtctjames (留言) 2008年1月30日 (三) 05:22 (UTC)