使用者討論:Rethliopuks/存檔 1
![]() | 本頁是以往討論的存檔。請勿編輯本頁。若您想發起新討論或重啟現有討論,請在當前討論頁進行。 |
感謝您對維基百科的興趣與貢獻,希望您會喜歡這裡。除了歡迎辭以外,也請您了解以下重要文章:
![]() |
![]() 版權問題解答 |
![]() |
![]() If you have any questions about the Chinese Wikipedia, please leave a message here. Thank you for visiting!
|
- 閱讀新手應該注意的七種常見錯誤、理解維基百科的立場與常見注意事項。
- 有任何編輯上的問題?請試試IRC即時討論。也可在下面加入「{{Helpme}}」,其他維基人見到後就會來提供幫助。
- 不知道有甚麼可寫?條目請求、最多語言版本的待撰條目、缺少的傳統百科全書條目和首頁的缺失條目中列出了許多維基百科目前還沒有的條目,歡迎您來撰寫!
- 想創建條目?到條目創建請求提交你的條目,維基人很樂意幫助。
- 希望您能享受共同編寫百科的樂趣,成為一名充實的維基百科人。
我是歡迎您的維基人:Jack Tao(留言) 2010年6月27日 (日) 06:49 (UTC)
About the page「希臘字母」 in Chinese Wikipedia.
Please check these pages:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet (page "Greek alphabet" in English Wikipedia)
- http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C_%CE%B1%CE%BB%CF%86%CE%AC%CE%B2%CE%B7%CF%84%CE%BF (page "Greek alphabet" in Greek Wikipedia)
- http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphabet_grec (page"Greek alphabet" in French Wikipedia)
- http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%AE%E3%83%AA%E3%82%B7%E3%82%A2%E6%96%87%E5%AD%97 (page"Greek alphabet" in Japanese Wikipedia)
- http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griechisches_Alphabet (page "Greek alphabet" in German wikipedia)
Thanks. Rethliopuks (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 15:12 (UTC)
Foreign western, but not eastern wikis are bad - current 希臘字母 is based on verifiable external sources:
- http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt - all archaic "GREEK LETTER" characters are included and all their properties are derived from it.
- Turkish Wikipedia serves as source of modern spelling.
You are breaking wikilink consensus established by admin User:Symplectopedia, so please stop or you will be blocked by administrators if you continue. I revert on behalf of Chinese administrators. ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 15:13 (UTC) ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 15:13 (UTC)
For your first point: Yes, one or two of them may be wrong, so I checked several languages (such as Fr/Eng/Jpn/Deu), and for the safety, I checked GREEK Wiki (it is their "mother alphabets"). They all show things same or similar with what I said. So, I could believe that I am right.
But in fact, the main reason is...
For your second point: I've studied for Greek for a period of time, so I trust what I studied is correct. In fact, I am now suspecting that why you only trust Turkish Wikipedia, and why you believe western wiki (such as English and Greek) are bad?
In my opinion, the source of modern spelling should differ from truth. If you don't believe things from (all Greece people) and (foreigners who studied or are now studying Greek), you should believe things from English wiki and Greek wiki. If you don't trust Western wikis at all, you should believe what Japanese wiki at least - in this problem. In fact, all the person or wiki I've mentioned will gve you the same as, or just a little different from my opinion.
I don't know if I made it clear. Another thing, it seems that the man you mentioned is not a real admin yet.Rethliopuks (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:01 (UTC)
I don't believe Wikipedias, I only believe Unicode, because bunch of classicists already gave me quantum-blurred values of Greek letter phonetic values, while http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt gives me strict singular values of classical values of Greek letter phonetic values, derived from first letter of each Greek letter name placed in http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:10 (UTC)
Uh, interesting. IS "http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunan_alfabesi" THE TURKISH VERSION? It shows the same things as I said! There is little difference between this wiki and Eng/Fra/Deu/Jpn/Greek wiki! Rethliopuks (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:11 (UTC)
It only served as modern spelling hint, like spelling of names in this template, while all sound values I derived from initial letters of Greek letter names in http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt primary source, like A as Alpha, etc... Note that http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt is only source that covers all archaic letters and their values at once, which are present in:
File:Greek Alphabet Unicode.png
at once. All other sources are only subsets of http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt . ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:23 (UTC)
ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:18 (UTC)
But these two files, neither of them shows the pronunciation and transliteration, aren't it? Both of them is just lists.Rethliopuks (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:32 (UTC)
I agree the existence of these Greek alphabets and their Unicode codes. I just think your "pronunciation (present)" and "transliteration" partly are wrong. Rethliopuks (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 16:41 (UTC)
Even if these lists do not provide pronunciation/transliteration directly, they provide it indirectly, as follows:
- Alpha
- Beta
- Gamma
- Delta
- Epsilon
- Digamma
- Stigma
- Zeta
- Heta
- Eta
- Theta
- Iota
- Yot
- Kappa
- Lamda
- Mu
- Nu
- Xi
- Omicron
- Pi
- San
- Koppa
- Rho
- Sigma
- Tau
- Upsilon
- Phi
- Chi
- Psi
- Omega
- Sampi
- Sho
where both pronunciation and transliteration is provided from primary bold initial letter and breathing (h) / hissing (s) secondary bold letter when applicable. Note that Xi hides K initial and s hissing inside X initial, but it is spelled as Xi in Unicode. Even Wau spelling is derived from Unicode "COPTIC CAPITAL LETTER OLD NUBIAN WAU" inside Greek+Coptic range of blocks. The same principle was reapplied to Turkish-derived modern Greek letter names. As you see, all is now as simple as possible, without uncertainity overhead, that formerly was provided by existence of several alternative phonetic/graphemic values for the same letter. Simply, we now have 1:1 correspondence, backed by singular verifiable source like http://unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/UnicodeData.txt . ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 17:02 (UTC)
Well, if you want to explain them by their NAME, their names are now pronounced as:
alfa
vita
ɣamma
ðelta
epsilon
zita
ita
θita
iota
kappa
lamða
mi
ni
ksi
omikɾon
pi
ɾo
siɣma
tau
ipsilon
fi
xi
psi
omeɣa
"x" is 「清軟齶擦音/清軟顎擦音(Voiceless velar fricative)」,not "ks".
In Greek, when "x" "k" "ɣ" "g" is behind /i/ or /e/, they become "ç" "c" "ʝ" "ɟ".
also……「According to en:WP:VER>en:WP:VER#Wikipedia_and_sources_that_mirror_or_use_it one wiki cannot be used as source for another wiki at least in serious matters like phonetic value definitions, etc... - only direct basing of text on external sources is allowed. Rethliopuks (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 17:03 (UTC)
I of course wanted to explain all by classic names as they are in Unicode, to recover classic graphemic and phonemic values, because they are less redundant than modern versions, and because they are more unambiguous at all. ريال (留言) 2010年7月6日 (二) 19:09 (UTC)
維基百科:投票/開放IP創建條目權限 (第二次)已經開始
維基百科:投票/開放IP創建條目權限 (第二次)已經開始了。由於上次組織者的缺乏經驗導致最後結果產生爭議,現經過上次共識的三個月試行,相信各位用戶已經對開放IP創文權有一定的認識,希望您可以再次前往參與。—Edouardlicn (留言) 2010年12月21日 (二) 05:02 (UTC)
邀請討論2011年香港春聚
- 邀請你的維基人是:拉叔(留言~) 2011年4月15日 (五) 06:43 (UTC)
- 邀請你的維基人是:拉叔(留言~) 2011年4月15日 (五) 06:43 (UTC)
邀請出席2011年香港春聚
送給您一枚星章!
原星章 | |
good--鄧小平複制人黃魯宏(user:cn223)※(☎) 2013年1月29日 (二) 22:59 (UTC) |
關於大明藩屬朝鮮國紀年問題
您好,近來朝鮮條目被加上明朝年號一事未有共識,已在社群發起投票,請您撥冗前往維基百科:投票/朝鮮王朝相關條目是否該加上明朝年號參與投票討論,感謝您。---- 行走京滬線 旅客留言 時刻表 2013年12月16日 (一) 17:36 (UTC)